Exposed Storytelling

Transcript for Ep. 2 Exposed Storytelling

 

 Hi, it's Mama Jill here. Can I just tell you how excited I am? I can't help it. I am in general so excited to be doing this podcast. It's just feeling right. It feels like a calling it. Um, you're about to hear my second segment with Exposed Storytelling series and my guests are Josie Nixon and Cooper Braun, and they are some of the most authentic people I've ever met and they are   producing, exposed, out of passion and out of intention, and they are a perfect fit for Colorado Soul stories, exposed stories telling.

Provides A platform for anyone to tell some of darkest chapters of their lives. The way I found them was my friend Jojo and I were looking for a place to tell our stories. We were going to open mics. Um, most of them were pretty unremarkable, and then we happened upon. This place in northeast Denver called the Larimer Lounge.

Oopsie, not the Larimer Lounge, the Lavender Lounge. Larimer Lounge is a, is a cool bar. But this, is a place where people gather and tell some of their hardest stories in a very supportive environment. And then if you want to, you can join.  Josie and Cooper on stage at the Bug Theater and tell your story in front of an audience, in front of a bunch of people you don't know.

And while that sounds scary, the best part of it is that it takes people from. Any walk of life, any demographic, any ethnicity, any sexual orientation. We're all together. We're telling our hardest stories, and we are listening to hard stories and we're learning. Hopefully. I have sure learned a lot. I've cried a lot, but as we discuss in the podcast , we grow from this difficult but very cathartic experience. So join me in this conversation and I hope you learn and grow with us. 

 

Okay. I'm here with Josie Nixon and Cooper Braun of Exposed Storytelling Series. Um, I did give a brief introduction, but Josie, would you like to describe what exposed is about in general? Happy to Exposed is a platform for our communities to find a place, sharing their stories authentically, being held by an audience of people that is guided through the narratives of the darkest parts of our lives done in a way that brings levity, entertainment, and really raw, vulnerable truth to a stage and into the spotlight when typically it's relegated to places that are dark, closed off.

And society shuns, to me, exposed is revolutionary in the fact that we are pushing communities across boundaries, across aisles and doing it in a way that centers performers and welcomes audience members to judge us openly in that journey. Although you said the storytellers are held by the audience.

 

I noticed you used that word. Yes, very much so. I like that. But we can be held and judged at the same time. Absolutely. You can't control that. , So we have the background and we're gonna delve deeper, but I wanna get backgrounds on both of you. How long have you each lived in Colorado? I'm coming up on.

 

Nine years, I believe. Okay. Yeah. From Michigan. From Michigan, yeah. Yeah. And, uh, very much still feel like a cornfield kid, you know, grew up in the woods. Uh, just do really well in a place with a little bit more diversity and openness as Okay. A queer artist type. And believe it or not, to me, that's, uh, a newer thing.

 

Denver is a big city now. Uh, myself, I grew up here and it was, it was kind of more like what your description of Yeah. Cal Town. Town. Town, yeah. We called it a countdown. Um, how did you end up coming here specifically to Denver? The very short story of the specific reason is that I, uh, through a lot of depression and let living my life in the closet, decided I wanted to live my life authentically and didn't want to come out as queer and trans surrounded by people who would've taken a long time to navigate that journey with me. So I decided 1800 miles was appropriate distance, and the week I moved here, I like took every step I could to be my full self. And you felt like Denver was a good place for you to come to? I felt like Boulder was okay. Yeah. Boulder. Boulder. I don't regret that decision.But I think Denver is where I actually found my people in my home. Uh, this place has welcomed me with open arms and I'm very appreciative for the community I have here. I'm glad to hear that. And, how about you, Cooper?

 

How'd you get to Colorado? I was born in Boulder. Oh. Oh, great. So we haven't, we're not supposed to say native, an original resident is what I say now. , I was born in Boulder. I moved all over Boulder County as a child. I grew up in Boulder on Iris, when that was all still farmland. Wow. And then I fled to the capital region of New York for college.And then I came back always sort of assuming I would go somewhere else. And that was 20 years ago. So I've progressively moved out of the Boulder bubble. I actually literally moved, uh, to North Park Hill two days ago. Oh, wow. So I'm now officially in Denver. Were you still in Boulder? Um, we, I was in sort of Westminster Bloomfield.

Okay, gotcha. But yeah, it's, um, I've been, it was Boulder and then Lafayette and then, so ease your way down here. Well, welcome to Denver. Thank you. Working together wasn't enough. You wanted to be neighbors. Yeah. I love it. And how did you two meet? Go for it. Uh, so I. My background as a storyteller,  I was raised on folktales and fairytales.

I didn't have a television growing up and I grew up, my form of child ification was my father's records and cassette tapes. Um, I grew up on the American storytelling revival. Theater and fantasy, and Dungeons and Dragons have been my background my whole life. My degree in theater. I've been a technical theater, uh, professional for a long time.

And about 11 years I bumped into what was then called the Boulder Story Circle, which is sort of an open mic for storytelling, uh, still mostly what I would call traditional stories, folk and fairytales. And I have been doing that professionally for the last 10 years. Okay. And I, that's all, that's a whole other story we can get into.

Yeah. But I met, uh, a friend of Josie's at a party that we'd having this sort of spontaneous open mic. I did a little seven minutes story, and she invited me to an event that her and a couple of other friends were putting on, which was basically the idea of they'd been all going to the moth. And they said, why don't we do this with our friends?

And I went and it was interesting. And the first story that I did was one that I would call performatively vulnerable story about, uh, self-injury and suicidality in my late teens and early twenties. And I had a bunch of people come up and say, wow, that was really intense. And I went, well, that wasn't actually vulnerable.

That had nothing to do with vulnerability. That's all stuff I can talk about. And the next time I came in and I spent the first half of the story talking about how that other story wasn't vulnerable and what would it mean to actually tell a story that was vulnerable. But we don't talk about that. Right. That choice gets given to people. Mm-hmm. And it's a choice. And that story was maybe more than this little group was asking for. It shaped, um, among our certain circles, people are like, oh, you're that Cooper. Um, and my friend was like, you need to tell that on the exposed stage. And introduced me to Josie and we ended up going to a dive bar. Oh. And just like ranting about feed theater and storytelling at the production and metaconcept of what we're trying to get done. It was really one of the best experiences I've had. Oh yeah. We both do well in a dive bar. Oh, I love dive bars.

 

So places, whiskey. Yeah, absolutely. So that, that's the, that's the long story of how we met.   I performed my first story that November of 2023. And then I got brought in April of 24 to actually help Yeah. Run the production. Okay. I'm gonna jump to, my question to you guys considering the subjects you just brought up. Mm-hmm. Cooper Tough subjects. , I did listen to some other interviews that Josie did and, talking about COVID and what that did to us as a culture. And, the first podcast I recorded was about a coffee house, run by some sixties radicals in the early seventies, and we were talking about how.

They created this community of acceptance. And I see a, a thread here that's common that way. However, times have changed a lot since the seventies and we all were isolated. And then I know for a fact having been a teacher that, uh, teenagers often get isolated  by spending time on the couch playing video games and maybe people not realizing they need to do something else.

Do you think that all those things, COVID, VID and social media, media in general   have kind of culminated  to a place where some of us really need more  face-to-face interaction? I don't, I wouldn't even limit it to that. I think we need a smack in the face. Okay. Thank you. I think exposed to me is an opportunity to tell people to wake up and get your head outta your.

 

Out of the sand. Mm-hmm. Um, we are braided on a daily basis with globalized atrocities, genocides, famine, warfare, death, murder, capitalism. And I just want you to come and listen to your neighbor tell you a story. Yeah. And that is hard for people. And it, it is a little mind boggling to me that during COVID we all accepted that we're all messed up.

Mm-hmm. And we were openly talking about it and we were sharing it, and we were asking for help. And then. We went back out in public and everyone looked at us in the face and we're like, no, no, no, no. I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm all, I'm good. So, uh, yeah, I did that didn't actually bother me. Feel like we, we gained some things and then immediately lost them.

Mm-hmm. One step forward, two steps back. Yeah. That's, that's how, that's exactly what happened to me. And, whether it's the generation of children that are now inundated with technology earlier than any of us can imagine, or it's the boomers that have been completely transformed by propaganda media or the millennials who have been told their entire lives that you can achieve this or that, and we're just sitting here like feeling like failures on a constant basis, or whatever generation you're in, you are a part of a generation that has, that is not the same as it was pre COVID.

Mm-hmm. And so for me. The face-to-face, the in-person show, the, the theatrical production, the humor of a clown hosting a trauma storytelling show. All of that is to say like a gimmick to just get you to come and listen to your community of people. Yeah. Because it's not happening. Well, good job can, go ahead, Cooper.

 

I think, uh, to get a little into the, the meta weeds of exposed to me exposed asks a question and it says, what is the story you don't tell? No. Really? What is the story you don't tell? I, I'm, I'm still working on the metaphor, but to me, there, we all have this thing, and right now you can't see, 'cause we're on a podcast. I'm reaching over my heart. Yeah. We all have this thing that is wrapped up in layers of shame and to hold it out. We assume it will be pitied, it will be hated, it will be laughed at. And we all have one of these. And you know, one of, one of the things we, we keep coming back to is your pain and trauma isn't special. And that's incredibly powerful. We often, trauma makes us, you know, we're in our own little dark bubbles and I think COVID, you know, cracked us open. We were something all talking about how we're all stuck in our houses, but we have this thing that we feel like we're the only person that has ever experienced something like this.

 

And when we bring that out, you have people you would never expect walk up to you after a show and go, oh yeah. Mm-hmm. One of the things we talk to our performers about is people will come up and trauma dump on you after the show. You, I'll run interference for you if you need it, but just be aware that will happen. And so, trauma dump, that's a, a neat term that I heard you guys use. . Maybe explain that a little bit. I remember an, another interview Josie was talking about maybe people that think they're going to the Moth or just some kind of theater thing that might be a little lot lighter. Yeah. I don't think that there is a storytelling show, in my opinion, that hits as hard as, as exposed us.

 

And you know, that's also totally objective because I have nothing to do with this. I think trauma dumping in terms of how it applies to expose, is that the storytellers go up on stage and reveal something about themselves that someone says, whoa, me too. And now I need to tell somebody, and I'm not gonna wait to therapist. I'm not gonna wait for a friend. I'm not gonna wait to call somebody. I'm just gonna tell the person that gave me permission to think that. And yeah, that makes sense. Mm-hmm. But the reason why Cooper always says, at rehearsals, we will all run interference for you, myself, our volunteers, our staff. Uh, and the other storytellers is because going up on stage and revealing that and giving all of those people that permission is a mentally and physically exhausting moment for most performers.

Yeah. And then to have someone you don't know walk up to you and say, oh, that was like such a powerful story. Thank you so much. That part's great, but hey, me too. And now I want to tell you about this thing that happened to me that's really also very fucked up. Wow. And opposed to well done. Thank you for giving me permission to feel that they feel this urge.

And that speaks to the fact that we do not have a shortage of storytellers at exposed. Oh no. We have constant applications and, um, that is because people want to say it. One of, one of the things that the show does. And this is so brilliant. We have these things called confession cards, where the audience, uh, really they're just sort of shoved in people's faces.

It's great in like a nice, in a nice way. But, uh, Nicole, Nicole is making sure we get, uh, some, some confessions. But basically as you come in, you're asked, would you like to write something down? And in between the stories, Josie uses these, um, to walk the audience back. I think, again, from a meta perspective, each of our stories walks the audience up to the edge of the abyss, both the teller and the audience.

And then Josie as the mc gets on stage and walks the whole group back audience and tellers together, and then using these confession cards. Some of them are hilariously funny, some are kinky, some are really dark. Damn. And what they do is they remind the audience that the people on stage are the people that were brave enough to get up on stage.

And yes, we spent three months developing any story that gets up on our stage, but. Everyone in the audience has these stories.

And you know, we have stories of childhood trauma, we have hilarious things. But it reminds this, again, I'm quoting Josie here 'cause Josie's smart that these are the stories of the people in this room. Yeah. They're the stories of the people in this office. They're the stories of the people sitting next to you in the coffee shop.

 

They're the stories of the people sitting next to you in on the bus everywhere places where we, you know, we often, we have our little communities, right. But the thing is, we're all messed up. And that transcends race and gender and sexuality and political.

It reminds us that we all have these stories, that we're all in this together and we, we make a really big deal that some of our performers, we've got, we've had professional comics and writers, and I'm a professional storyteller. And we've had, you know, one of the best stories we've recently had was an optometrist Wow.

Who was terrified to be on stage, but they did it crushed. And, and so heart wrenching, right? You have these beautiful stories that we wanna make it accessible to people that have never stood behind a microphone, that have never written something since high school. We do the shows, what we would call paper in hand.

We ask the, we ask the tellers to be about 70% memorized, but we want, one of the hurdles to a lot of storytelling shows is this idea of. Uh, perfect memorization. And you know, my quip here is David Sedaris is one of the best performers I've ever seen. That man stands behind lectern and res. And if you wanna tell me, David Sedaris is not a performer because he has papers in his hand.

Yeah. You and I are, have some disagreements about performative art. Huh. That's, that's validating, right? Yeah. That you can, but seeing the papers in hand also says to people who are not performers, I could do that. Oh, I could be up there. Okay. I could be on that stage. Because they can be. Yeah. Because we all have these stories and yes, some people take longer to help develop their stories than others.

And some people, again, our optometrist, uh, a normal story is 1200 to 1700 words. She handed me 3000 words. Every single one of them was beautiful. Oh. And that whole process was just, how do we cut 1500 words? Right. She does. She wouldn't call herself a writer. She wouldn't call herself a performer. And she handed us a stunning story.

 

There was a performer at the last bug that I went to, uh, and I went up to her and I did not trauma dump on her, but I Good for you. I, uh, I hugged her and said, thank you for your story. It really touched me. And I, I said, you're such a wonderful writer. 'cause her, her prose was amazing.And she said, I'm not a writer. I, I ran into that quite a bit with these storytellers, but they are, they, they allow Cooper and I to  help them. Okay. And isn't that a crazy thing? What happens when you say, I will actually take up your offer to help? So when Cooper said, we work with storytellers for three months, so I'd say about 80% of our applications now come from people who have seen the show.

 

Yeah. And say, I wanna do that too. And because it is accessible for them to do so, I tell them on stage, I want your story. I want to help you give a. Like a moment for yourself to really build this narrative and like dig into it. And the really interesting thing is that due to that accessibility, I have gotten first drafts that are completely a hundred percent gone by the time they get to stage.

Because like Cooper said, it's just not the story. And we found the story in their draft together. Or you have professional memoirists who drop us a chapter and say, let's transform this first stage. And that's what we do. Oh, and when you just offer people help Yeah. In a non-judgmental way and say, whether you're a professional or not, I will be editing this story so it fits this show.

Yeah. Then every single person says, I can do that too. It's so empowering. I I love that. Yeah. I mean everything from. Folks who are very recently homeless, to people who are published authors, professional comics, professional storytellers, full on union actors, which was a choice, but that was harder to work with than I was anticipating. So we'll see about the number of those in the future. But, uh, it, it ranges from every single socioeconomic class that I am aware of at this point. And we are probably one of the most diverse things I've ever been a part of. Um, just in opinion, in lifestyle, in  appearance, in beliefs, in identity group. It, I furtherly believe we all have the story to tell.

 

It's a lovely stone soup of people. I mean, that is part of the attraction for me Yeah. Is that it's not just this, you know, type of demographic and is boring. We definitely get one of, one of the processes. We get people that. Really want to tell you what they learned. Mm-hmm. You know, and that one of the things we talk about is that exposed is not, it's not a place to shout about your, your political ideology.

Mm-hmm. But if, I mean, we've talked about this, we sort of long for the day that someone in a MAGA hat gets up on our stage and tells them a, tells us a story about who they are because they have a story. Mm-hmm. And I may not agree with them politically, but they have a story. And if, and that we have had this breadth of people who, once they sort of realize that actually we're here to listen to them.

You don't have to tell us what your politics are. You don't have to tell us, this is what I learned from this terrible, this is how I grew as a human. This is the thing that I wish you knew if you were in this position. No, I just want you to tell me your story. I just want to give you the place to tell a story.

One of the first times I actually, I believe the first time I went to the Moth, the first performer on stage was a woman who got up and wept for five minutes telling a story about her father's suicide. Oh, geez. And then literally was judged because it's the moth and the stories are judged. Oh, yeah. And she had no place to tell that story.

She desperately needed to tell that story, but she didn't have a venue. She didn't have a place that she felt like she could tell it. So she went to the place that she could. And it was, you know, the Moth I, I like the Moth. The moth is a very strict style. Mm-hmm. And that just wasn't a story in that style and in the way we get some stories that were like, that's a great moth story.

So how do we make that an exposed story? Yeah, yeah. Dig deeper. I feel like you're, in some cases, you're helping people. Like you said, it's not about the politics, but people get, that becomes part of an identity clearly right now. Especially, you know, but who are you really? You know, here's the politics. I can read about that.

Who are you? Yes. Tell us your story. So you guys have talked about, um, that being a form of activism and that really got to me too, because I have kind of felt guilty for not going to demonstrations. I also talked about this in the last podcast, and we all agreed that that just wasn't our thing. But that's not the only way to activate.

Yeah. I, I have a lane. Mm-hmm. And I'm very strong in that lane. And nobody who knows me would say, I'm not doing enough. Right. And I'm confident in that, could I do more? Yeah. I mean, who couldn't, right? Who couldn't do more, who couldn't go to more things, who couldn't yell more, who couldn't post more, who couldn't.

But. What is my lane and how do I do it as best as possible? And I, I firmly believe that this is my lane. And the, my, the career I had before this was in professional activism. And to spare the length of that opinion, I really struggled with how activism is being done in my community. Uh, it's a lot of finger wagging.

It's a lot of, you have to do this or I'm gonna do that. And I, the more I traveled to do it, the more people I sat down with had a dive bar with a glass of whiskey in my hand, and found the guy sitting next to me at the bar and said, so where are you from? And all of a sudden, I'm the coolest trans person.

 

Everybody's ever met. And what it takes is me to just be like, I don't really care what you call me. Just be nice. Yeah. Uh, and all of a sudden they're asking about where I went to school, what I studied, where are their kids? How old are their kids? How old are, how old am I? You know, where like, what was it like to grow up in Michigan?

What was it? Grow up, you know, to grow up in Texas. And I, this is something I, I, uh, four days ago was in Kansas City and had this exact experience one-on-one. I, I can get along with any, any person and I guess 'cause I wanna know who they are. I approach with genuine curiosity and gratitude for them being willing to share those things.

The moment there's a group, they start to feel judged by the other people in that group that they're talking to me. Hmm. Or that they are sitting next to a trans person. Hmm. And I'm a thousand things before I'm trans. Trans just happens to be a hot topic. And the year I came out was the year, uh, Donald Trump got elected the first time.

And all of a sudden I went from having never heard of trans people really to, I'm in the headlines every day. And that was an interesting experience. And so for me, this is a natural progression of like where my activism goes. I think this lane for me says I can get a guy in a MAGA hat, but no hats on stage.

So a MAGA shirt, you know, I can get a guy who comes up. You know, he is blue collar, believes in, you know, what he believes, tells me a story about trauma from his life. Beautiful. Love that. Then I wanna bring up a blue haired, non-binary, boulder queer who is mattered hell at everything that ever happened.

And I want to hear a story about who they are and what happened to them. Yeah. And I will go up on stage afterwards and do the exact same thing that I do now, because it does not matter and I'm not gonna convince anybody of anything by yelling at them. Right. For me, my lane exists in, here's who I am. Do you really hate me?

Like, I like your whiskey choice. Like I'll, I'll buy you an appetizer. Do you really hate me? Like, do you actually think I don't deserve liberty or life or freedom? Or is it just. A group mentality for you. Yeah. And in exposed, you're in a dark theater where no one else can see you. And I know for a fact that lots of Trump supporters come to my show, and they certainly feel awkward after I talk about my lifestyle on stage and all these things.

But, uh, I have had multiple people come up to me and say, I really appreciate what you're doing. And I'm one of those people. And that's a beautiful, that's, that's such an accomplishment, you know, whether you did it on purpose, it, it almost, oh, it's, it's on purpose. Okay. Don't, don't take that from me. An evolution of, of how you, to me, it's a new definition of civil discourse Really.

Which needs some redefining for us, I think. I think in many ways it's an old film. Yeah. Right. You know? I had a martial arts guy that I worked with a long time that said. Really, the best way to teach young men is to make them sit around a fire with old men and listen to war stories.

Hmm. And whether those are from inner city people or people that have been to actual war, but that, like, whether it's sitting at your front porch, it's sitting on the stoop of your house. Right. It's, it's sitting in community and listening to the stories of the people in your community. Oh, and I don't want to rant about the kids these days.

I spent, I spent the last seven years that I spent with the University of Colorado Boulder working for the theater department. Um, the youth will always have problems. Every generation wants to judge the youth. Um, right. And the thing is, is one thing though, is we often don't sit and listen to other people's stories in a way that we might have.

 

Now, the caveat here is that there's actually a lot of this, you know, for all it's toxicity. Things like Reddit are really powerful in this way of giving people, places to have these conversations on the internet, if anybody remembers Live Journal, um, in the early two thousands, live Journal saved my life because I found people I could talk to.

Was that similar? I don't know what it was. The, it was the hip social media before MySpace. Oh, wow. Whoa. Dating. Yeah. Yeah. Dating yourself here. Kick. But so, but this idea of sitting and listening to people talk who maybe, maybe they're a friend of your parents. They're a friend of a friend, they're someone that you wouldn't normally ask, but listening to them just talk.

Yeah. Listening to them shoot the shit. And that I think is incredibly powerful and that it's, it's a very slow activism, but it's a powerful activism because the people that sit in those theaters. And our theater have feelings. Um, one of you know, Josie's quote is that if you leave apathetic, we haven't done our job.

 

Right. And I'll write you a note for a better therapist. Yeah. Right. That I remember that. Yeah. That, you know, you may be angry, you may be touched, you may be blown away that that is even possible that happened. But , you are having a human emotional response to hearing the story of another human.

Yeah. And that, to me begins this bridging of, I, one of the stories that I tell is how in the

 but these stories are old, trauma is old.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. We, I, I, I've said that, you know, I, I'll say this over and over again, we're not special. And that is so powerful. Yeah. The fact that your trauma doesn't make you special. Well, you guys have used the word normalizing trauma. And again, you're saying the, the method that we're talking about of the act as as storytelling is old.

 

I mean, the Native American culture that that's mostly predates them. That's for sure. Yeah. Predates everything. Yeah. But we're, you're bringing it back really. And at a time when I, I've just been blown away at, people wanting to, I mean, you get full a full audience there. People wanna hear stories and wanna connect and perhaps wanna be uncomfortable.

 

Yeah. I think there's, uh, a little bit of the like true crime, you know, mentality where it's like, I just kind of wanna know the fuck those. Okay. You know, like maybe I do wanna know. I've been think of that a darker part of life. Mm-hmm. And I, you know, there's running this company as like a creative person is really fun because I have to sit in my left brain as much as I can.

And like the marketing side of it is that there is an interest in, people want to know the nitty gritty. They want to know what actually goes on. Yeah. For a trans person, what actually goes on for someone who had abusive appearance? What actually goes on for a homeless person living on the streets? What actually goes on for an old cowboy who went to Vietnam?

You know, it's these experiences, uh. Don't get shared because like what Cooper said, you, you just don't, you don't go to your friend's houses anymore and just have someone's dad tell you stories. And I didn't really have that growing up, but my parents would tell me stories. My mom was a nurse and she would come home and tell me stories about her workday.

And as a pediatric nurse, it sure did help me feel like I was a lucky kid. Oh. So let's explore that. We talked a little bit about your family experiences and how they might have influenced your storytelling. Sure. Well, it's funny 'cause So Cooper, had, uh, a very different, uh, uh, step into storytelling.

 

It seemed like a very natural thing, whereas like my parents put me in sports and fine that, that I was quite good at them and, and did enjoy them. And I a lot of great life lessons from that. But I stumbled as a volunteer bartender for a storytelling show in 2000 and. 18 and then was like, oh yeah, no, this is, this is good.

I wanna do that. You were the bartender. I was the bartender, volunteered last minute, Hey, we need some help. Can you come to this venue? Cool. What is this event? And the next event that that group held, I was on stage shaking mm-hmm. As I was reading a story shaking and had the experience where a gentleman with, you know, very, very little in common with me, come up to me and say, you're, your story impacted me in a huge way.

Hmm. And that was when my brain started to create a shift where I believed, first and foremost, the storytelling is that the core of all of our work as humans is how we connect. It's how we change people's minds. It's how we grow, it's how we communicate our histories, it's traditions and cultures. And, you know, it's the, the earliest form of communication is telling stories via, you know, cave paintings and, um.

That is not something that we're, you know, revolutionizing. But for me it was a huge revolution of my mindset the moment I found it. And I'm lucky enough to have parents who, you know, I talk to as often as I can, and, uh, love calling them, you know, talk to my mom already once today. And like that allows them and I to have a better connection through, okay, we're just gonna tell each other stories now, and I'm cracking my dad open slowly.

He'll listen to this and he'll say, oh man, maybe I should tell Josie some more stuff my childhood. But, uh, there's a, a thing that , I feel lucky in that, you know, my parents were very loving and it allowed me, uh. Uh, when I wanted to make the jump into doing storytelling full time, uh, I had support, you know, and, and they said, you know, whatever they can do to help, which mainly is just calling and venting sometimes.

Huh uh, but it has, it is in, you know, having that history of like, my parents know, I want to know the stories. Yeah. And, uh, I don't have any grandparent direct grandparents left, but, you know, I, I'm, I regret not having more of those moments and I don't want other people to experience that too. So I just make a platform and I'm really good at being on stage now and I'm really loud, so You are great.

So you hadn't done anything like that before that Oh, I'm blown away. You're very good. My senior year of college, I got excused from a. Presentation in class because I was, my, my teacher knew I was so bad at presenting, but I was an A student, so Yeah. They just let me get an A. Yeah. They were like, you don't have to do the project.

 

Wow. Which is great. It's, it's interesting. One of the things, if we want to talk about storytelling as an art form. Yeah. You know, as Josie said, storytelling is fundamentally ancient. We could describe humans as homo narrative.

Good word. Yeah. Yeah. Not, not originally mine, but, uh, um, we tell stories and storytelling gets bandied around. I say, I'm a storyteller, and people, they're like, oh, I do that too. I'm like, what do you do? I'm a trial lawyer. Like, okay. 'cause fundamentally what we're doing right now is storytelling. Everything humans do involves narrative.

 we had this sort of upsurge of the moth was the one that sort of rose to the top. But there were a lot of people doing this idea of true personal stories.

 

Josie's ran a couple of events before exposed that played with this idea.The podcast movement exploded. This idea that no, no, really what if we just talked to you? Mm-hmm. And sometimes, you know, it's someone hardcore history is like hours and hours of someone explaining the fall of Rome. Right? Like, someone's, what are you really into?

Yeah. And so, you know, storytelling is storytelling. All of that.  Do your words convey the emotions that you're trying to convey? Is it muddy? Do I understand what you're talking about? And this is a lot of what Josie and I do when we develop someone's work, right?

We, we talk them through, like, that doesn't make sense. What if this went here? What if we, you know, what if this was a flashback? Or what if we told it in order? And then the other side is the literal standing on stage, right? How to use a microphone, how not to be blinded by lights, how to expect the audience will or won't laugh.

 And so like, it's, one of the things I think that I, storytelling just, just so lovely.

We get people from all over and we get some people who are like. Used to talking to thousands of people at a conference. Mm. Or a board meeting. They're really, really comfortable standing and talking to people. And then you ask them to tell a story and they, they sort of start shivering up about themselves.

 

Right. Not about their business or something. Right. I'm like, no, I want you to, I, no, I don't want you to pitch. I just want you to tell me a story. Yeah. And so those people, we have to work on, okay, what is a story? And then my optometrist friend, beautiful story. Like, okay, this is how you talk into a microphone.

 

And so it's these two converging sort of skill sets. Yeah. And that some people come with one, some people come with neither. Some come, people come with both. Well, and when you talk about the diversity and the different ages of people and everything, we all were educated differently as a former teacher, though I do look at this as a renaissance for the storytelling piece and the listening piece because.

 

I didn't know what a podcast was originally. I just found out where it got its name. Not worthy of talking about that, but, um, my son was listening to them and in the past of my teaching research, it was stereotypical that boys were not good listeners. Like if the teacher's up telling you stuff, they're gonna be fiddling and moving and squirming.

 

So I would always try to find other ways to engage them. So I was kind of like, wow, you're listening and, got your headphones on. And, and I saw more people doing that. I mean, we kind of had a, almost an epidemic of people wearing, earbuds but. I was starting to feel really good that are we getting to be better listeners because we're listening to podcasts and then we're doing this live with people together.

 

So, for me and where I come from , it's a renaissance of coming back to it, I suppose. Mm-hmm. And, and thriving and it being a really, really good thing. You know? I mean, there's a reason why I start the show by yelling into a microphone, sit down, shut up and listen.

 

And, you know, then beg people in the audience to shut off their phone for two and a half hours, you know, and you still get the dings. People can't do it. People refuse to. Um, I don't know. I, I, I think that this idea of active listening mm-hmm. Was something that was introduced to me, you know, a number of years ago, probably like when I found, like when it came out to Boulder and.

The thing that has been the most interesting is having people tell their stories to Cooper and I, and we're developing them with them, and the first thing we say is, thank you. Aw. That's it. Just thanks for sharing that. Yeah. How do you feel? Oh, not, Hey, I have a thought. Oh, me too. Oh wait, I've been waiting to say this.

Oh, I have a comment on that thing. It's sit down for a sec. How, how are you feeling? And our rehearsals are very comfortable places because of that work that we do. Yeah. And you see it in their face, like you see a reaction to it. Yeah. And then for a whole room of people to listen to you tell a story is powerful, especially if that story is intense.  It sounds like you coach everybody really well, and you're so, um, thoughtful about it. Do you ever get anybody that that comes in and they think they wanna do it and they begin the rehearsals and they back out? Is that an old regular thing?

No, no, thank God. Oh, because, uh, no, it's not. We have a really high success rate. If you put in an application and you may get past, like submitting a draft that we have a very high percentage of to the stage. Uh, now it's more a practice of, uh, patience because we just are booking out quite a bit further.

Yeah. So right now we're booking out August shows and really, uh, but we are having more shows and, you know, we're going to eight cities this year, so we'll have a lot more opportunity for people. Uh, we're taking five people to Salt Lake City in a couple of weeks, which is exciting. So , there's been a couple of reasons why folks have dropped out and they're never short on making sure I know exactly what I've done wrong.

Oh, but there's, there's a mentality that I have and Cooper said this, your trauma doesn't make you special, and I'm not gonna coddle you. I tell people right off the bat, this is a hard thing. You need to be inspired to tell it. 'cause it's gonna be hard for you. And I'm not gonna be your therapist.

Right. I will listen. I will hold you, I will talk to you about it. I'll navigate the nuances of it. I will help you make a beautiful piece. But I'm not gonna sit here and tell you that you're special because you went through that. I'm gonna tell you that you're special because of where you are now. And if you can get up on stage and tell people what you've been through, that's special.

Yes. Yeah. And so you know, there are the very few people who haven't done it because of logistic reasons. Like , we had a person move, which was frustrating 'cause I was like, you probably could've told me that and I would've booked you sooner. Um, but then we have, you know, and maybe they'll hear this or not, but this is my opinion, is it is typically the people who are two sensitive.

And, and that's like a harsh way to say, Uhhuh, you can't hear me tell you that you're not special and you need me to coddle you through this whole process where you're one of. 76 people we've put through this now and that number is gonna soar past a hundred this year. And so, yes, you will be treated with dignity and respect and kindness, and I will listen and I will hear you and I will help you write beautiful art.

And Cooper does the exact same thing in his own way. And we both have our different styles, but , there's a mentality that the intensity of which I approach this idea is too much. And I've actually, and this is probably the thing I've heard the most since starting exposed. It's too much. It's too much.

You're too much. You do too much. You're forcing people to listen to too much. That's not appropriate. It's it, you know, you can't have a show that has a motto of, we're all fucked up. Oh, but. When I say it on stage, 140 people will applaud me. Every time I say it. By the end of the show, they're saying it right back. Yeah. And that to me says I'm not for everybody, and boy do I not care about that. Right. Um, you know, 80 20, I only care about 80% of people. And you're, you're setting a boundary there and you're making it clear, which I think is very good. Yeah. They can go to the moth and there, there's also the flip side.

 

Right. We get, I think I've worked with, there's one person specifically where they obviously had something to say, but they didn't know what they wanted to say. And I did a lot of digging and asking, and the answer was, you don't know what you wanna say. Hmm. So if you figure that out Yeah. Come back. Yeah.

I think the biggest hurdle that I get is people who, this is the first time they. Said this. Yeah. So coaxing it out is often the hard part. And then you have some people that are like, I have all of this. Okay, cool. One at a time. , I would much rather you write me 5,000 words and we can cut it down to 1500 than you write me 300 and you say, I'm done.

Yeah. Yeah. Be, and so really for me it's that level of coaxing out and saying, no, no, really? What is it you want to say? Yeah. , You asked to be on this stage. Mm-hmm. You submitted, I see that you want to be here, but to do that, you're gonna have to say something. Yeah. And that's maybe the most, I don't know, part where I play the therapist, like, yeah, yeah, yeah.

 

Sure. How does that make you feel? Uh, the, the, the thing that I've noticed the most, I. Recently is this. Uh, so we have to post ads, of course, we have to post ads and ads, uh, make people wanna leave comments and, uh, on, you know, Instagram videos. And, um, everybody has their opinion about everything and they want me to know it.

But the thing that I tell, like, the thing that I like to advertise the most is, gets a lot of traction because it's creates a lot of turmoil. Is that, uh, your trauma's not too much for me. Oh, I have, I'm in the business of trauma. Right. And I am not different than you. I cry. I am just a good crier. And I have people in my life who know what I do, like Cooper, when I can sit down and say like, oh, that one is a lot and we need to talk about it.

 

Or, oh. Um, we work with a woman, Nicole, and she and I have a very close relationship now because of the work that we do. But there's this thought that. My trauma is so much that you can't handle my trauma and I don't know how to tell you that I'm a trauma clown because I believe I can handle your trauma.

And I actually believe an audience of people can handle your trauma. I actually believe, if you think no one can handle your trauma, good luck being alone forever. You very close-minded person and you are not special. Well, they need more exposure. Yeah. Perhaps come to a show. Yeah. And then tell me that you think you're a traumas.

 

I think there's often a if. If, if we're being kind, those kinds of people to me have been told their whole life that they're too much. Yeah. That what the trauma that has happened to them is too much. They've been shunned for it.

They've been pushed back. , And there's a reason why we are terrified to pull this thing out and show it because people have scorned us. Mm-hmm. People have. Never talk to us again. Right. People have pitied us. All of those things have happened. Yeah. Our role is effectively to say, we want you here.

Yeah. Yeah. And I will promise you, I can promise you that if any person from the audience has something to say to you, they gotta go through me first. So how do you do that? I did remember at the beginning you said you've got their back of when people are gonna kind of swarm somebody or something.

Well, we just are, I had on the swivel, uh, Uhhuh, and we ask people like, do you have family here? Do you have friends here? And also by this point, Cooper and I are really good at identifying that person is gonna get a lot, or that person might catch some negative things. Uh, you know, we've had some, you know, audience members, negative reactions of course.

And we're pretty good at identifying when that's gonna come up. So, really for us it's just about. Trying to be proactive about it To pay attention. Yeah. Or you're watching. Yeah. So that the two follow ups on what you guys just said, so one of them was, I wrote down in, my questions for you, what are we as the audience, what are we supposed to do with our uncomfortableness?

 

So some people will go up and maybe trauma dump, or hug somebody. Those are two reactions. , How would you answer that? What am I supposed to do with my uncomfortableness of Vaughn's story about his brother dying? That just put me to pieces, you know? Yeah. There's, there's many things that I'd like you to do, and then there's the realistic part of me that says, you also have to get in your car and drive home.

Right. Likely go to bed, be a grownup, and be a grownup. Figure it out. It's a bummer, but. The thing that I tell everyone in the audience, and you know, I have a few people take me up on at every show is I will, I will go get a coffee with any single person that wants to come and meet with me. We have a support group that we run on a weekly basis with a group, uh, outta Littleton called Rooted 3 0 3.

It's in person and virtual, so it's very accessible for both audience members and storytellers. We also run an open mic show that Cooper hosts every month. Mm-hmm. And that is a great place to just sit and find community. That's where we met you. Yep. And that is a much more intimate Yeah. Uh, thing. And it's open mic style, so anyone can say anything.

And then the bottom line is Buck up buttercup. This is, um, this happened Yeah. To us, and you're just listening to it, right? When you watched the final episode of Breaking Bad and you watched 80 people get murdered, which is constant television now, when you turned down the news, uh, and what do you do? Why am I more responsible for your wellbeing than Fox News or CNN or M-S-N-B-C?

Why? Why can't I just say, Hey, this is actually your neighbor? Well, that's why I think not someone in some distant part of your brain that you can only access while you're facing it, and then you turn it off and you go to desensitized, you know, you go to the some funny TV show to, to desensitize yourself.

And , that to me says, buck up buttercup. This is real life. We have had people walk out of shows. Mm-hmm. But , usually they walk out because they're having a really intense response to the story. Yeah. Mm-hmm. And that, you know, this is, this is Josie's introduction to the show in a lot of ways, is that you're going to feel something, and maybe we could say.

That we've spent a lot of time with, whether it's television or doom scrolling or whatever, of anesthetizing, our ability to feel little reels that give us this little hit of dopamine. We have a little experience, but to actually sit with our feelings. Yeah. It's hard. It's not something we train ourselves to do anymore.

 

The idea right, that we've sort of forgotten how to be born these days. Absolutely. Yeah. And so we've, we've forgotten what it means to sit with our feelings and so often just that reassurance of like, you're gonna have feelings. Mm-hmm. And that's okay. Yeah. They might be intense, they might be wild.

 

People laugh at really inappropriate things because laughter is a way we're able to release tension. One of our storytellers, I really had to talk them down that I was like, look, 'cause they were really offended that someone was laughing at part of the story. And I was like, that person had no way.

To conceptualize what it meant to have been raped as a child. Oh, wow. Other than to let it go in laughter. Yeah. And they responded really well to that. Right. Like that sometimes we have no way, we have no reference point, so we have to let something go. And I would rather that people let themselves have that experience.

Right. I, you know, my body is physically moving right now. Right. That we have a somatic response. And to sit with that, because we're all human. We all feel we need to feel right. And that this show says, what if you felt something together? What if you felt something together? What if you didn't say, that triggered me?

I need to exit. But you said, I am so upset. Oh, so are they. Oh my gosh. So are they, so is every single person, because Of course. Mm-hmm. And then to the point, laughter and crying. Both are a huge release of emotion. So what do I want you to do? Yeah, I want you to sit with it until it releases in whatever way feels best for you.

And I welcome that at the open end show. I say, whatever you need to do, clap hoot, holler, laugh, cry, feel uncomfortable, but sit with us. Next time I go, I'm gonna look at the audience more. 'cause I, it's hard to it. We really suck you into that, that stage. Well, I felt like I was the only one sobbing. I mean, I was sitting there quietly sobbing.

 

And so part of the reason I went to the lobby was I thought I was gonna go, you know, ugly cry loudly or something. Um, but I was a little shocked that I didn't see, I didn't see there was probably other people. But you were silently crying in a dark room. Right. And so potentially there was some other people might have.

 

Okay. Other people are good at cried quietly, including people have come up to me and said, that story broke me. Okay. Okay. You're not alone. And that's another beautiful thing that we say is like, we are all. Fucked up. Yeah. And you are not alone if you are feeling something in the exposed audience. So is other people definitely guaranteed.

Yeah. Guaranteed it might not be as personal right. To that other person. Or it might not be as potent, but I'm in the back of the room doing my best not to cry all the time. You know, like I'm a very, you know, empathetic person and it's hard for me, but my job is to, like Cooper said, walk you back. So I, I go up there with the intention to do that.

 

So. So that leads to me in my other response. Um, what do you guys do for your own self-care and, and being so exposed to all these difficult stories a lot of the time? Oh, I mean, I think we both have our own processes, but I, I would guess to say we're pretty similar in the mindset that we have both accepted that we.

 

Found something we feel very called to do. Mm-hmm. I, I really feel this as a mission of my life, which is why I started it and why I'm pursuing it. And for me, if that's the lane that I occupy, okay. Then I'm happy to do it. And my partner knows that sometimes if I read four or five stories in a day, I'm gonna be really raw Yeah.

 

And need a lot of snuggles and so do my friends. Yeah. And my family and my community. And I am not unimpacted. I read them alone on a computer screen in my living room, as does Cooper. And I think through our own understanding of why we want to put this show on, we navigate that in a sense of, it's worth crying in a coffee shop.

Mm-hmm. For me to help this person get their story to stage. Huh. Okay. I think on the really prosaic side, there's, that's the mental, on the other side is a, a friend of mine is a, a physical trainer, and his, one of his favorite things to say is, the easiest way to get weak is to get hurt. Mm. And so, taking the time, I know that the day after a show, I am not going to be very functional.

Yeah. Okay. And that, so those become rest days. Okay. Um, that, you know, it, this is my job. And so that idea of you have to close the computer, I'll, I will respond to those emails and those texts tomorrow. Absolutely. Right. That, that I am allowed to step away and go make dinner and have dinner with my partner and go watch a stupid movie or go watch an intense movie or go out with my friends.

Like I'm allowed to step away and I'm also allowed. To whatever it is. Right? If it's, it's like, okay, I need to sit with this, I need to, I need to have some quiet and snuggles or mm-hmm. I need to like the think, right? Like, yeah. That process there is, and what, you know, in whatever job anybody does, there is stress.

And if you never release that stress, it's just bad things are gonna happen.

 

Do you ever need to just go be physical, like go exercise or something? Yeah, both gym people. Okay. Heavy bags are, they're not my friend. I hit them very hard. Good. I believe in that for sure. Yeah. . So, we're getting to a point where we have to start going to the downhill of, of concluding, and I wanted to talk about your tour.

 

Oh, sure. Um, and do you do that every year or is this new or No? Um, well, so exposed started December of 2022. Uh, and I dipped my toes into a few shows in Boulder. We did a show in Colorado Springs, and mainly we've been, uh, at a home base at the Bug Theater for 16 or 17 months, I think. December of 2023 was our first year there.

 

And then, um, a woman by the name of Beth Marshall came to the show and she said, you need to come to my house and talk to me about this. Mm-hmm. She performed a show and she ran a festival in Orlando for many years as the artistic director. Uh, it's called Fringe Theater Festivals. And, and that term fringe, does that come from um, um, sort of like on the edge?

Yeah. Uh, yeah. Isn't it from, um, it's the Edinburgh French Edinburgh, yes. Oh, yeah. My son has actually been to it. Yeah. Yeah. So it's the same festival. Okay. But the United States version, Orlando is the longest running one in the United States, and she helped start it, so. Wow. Uh, she came to me last year and was like, you should apply to this.

And so I did. And last year I performed in Denver Fringe, and then this year she got into a bunch of festivals. I got into a couple festivals and she was like, let's take this on the road. And so Beth actually is a huge proponent of our tour. Nice. And I, you know, a thousand thanks. And she knows my gratitude.

We just spent three weeks together driving across the country Oh, right. As well. So we are mid tour. We have, uh, five cities left to go. Um, we will hit eight cities total this year. And yeah, we have a GoFundMe, if anybody listening is willing to throw a cup of coffee our way, gas money or gas money, or a night at a hotel.

 

Um, it is crazy experience that I'm so proud to be able to take this idea to more people. It was received extremely well everywhere that we've done it so far. , We won an award for, , best individual drama performance, uh, which was really exciting. And yeah,, it's a pretty wild thing, but ultimately the goal is to bring exposed into as many states as we can.

Cool. Um, and have recurring shows in these, in these places. So really there are, everywhere. There is a moth show, there is an opportunity for an exposed show and everywhere in every city, there's already shows going on. We just offer a model that I think is unique in the fact that the show is hosted in such a theatrical or performative way, while also offering access for storytellers via live red scripts.

So. Its something that I could not do without Cooper as like a Denver base, someone I trust, , Nicole running our admin, Beth helping me with the tour and more people being added on, uh, as soon as possible because I'm so busy. But yeah, any help anyone has to offer, our tour cities are listed on our website and on our, , social media sites and sending people our way, supporting us financially, supporting us by sharing, liking, following, whatever it is, really does way more help than people realize.

Okay, uh, the money being right. One, I might, I might get on my knees and scorp. So it, it's, it's a wild experience that, uh, I feel really, really grateful. And honestly, I came back from this last festival and Cooper ass and I just, I feel so inspired. Thanks this. C this, we have so much beautiful art and I'm so honored to be a part of the movement that is not gonna die.

Yeah. No matter how much it's stronger taken away. Oh, right. Yeah. So I will indeed put your website on our show notes. Thank you. For sure., Well, congratulations on that. Thanks. That's really cool. And the fringe, I know is a good fit for you guys.  I am a fairly unique human and the things that I bring to stage are boundary pushing because of the people willing to trust myself and Cooper with the, the stories.

And, uh, then the way that I host the show, in my opinion, is. I, I don't wanna say one of a kind 'cause that feels messed up, but it's, it's, it's different. Very unique. There's not another storytelling show that has a me and that I know. No, that's, that's the truth that I do know. I mean, you're both, I'm gonna use the word special when I went to the Lavender Lounge, which I Thank you.

Home, I guess. Yeah. Um, it's my living room. Didn't know that till we got there. It's a cool spot there. But, you know, I did get a little teary-eyed. Of course I'm that kind of person. Um, but I was like, this is a really good thing. I said that to you at the end. Mm-hmm. Cooper. Mm-hmm. And I was like, this is, I wanna know more about it.

You know? I'm so glad I have this platform now to Yeah, me too. To explore those things. I'm going to try to ask, kinda like Guy Ross does a lot of podcasts ask the same question at the end, but I think we've already answered it. My question for people is going to be, so the, the name of the podcast is Colorado Soul Stories, and I think we've definitely seen how exposed adds to the Soul of Colorado.

 

If you wanna give a brief sentence on how you think that is accomplished. So soul is a word that I choose not to use. Okay. In a lot of my discussion with people because there's some religious connotations that for some people it's hard. Gotcha. But I think that what Expose does is it says, I would like to see your soul.

 

I would like to see what it is that made you, and I would like to show you that in return and that I haven't met another show like it. And it's so powerful. And so I don't, I don't often use that word, but you gave me the word I gave it to you. So, and but that, that, that fundamentally this, this idea of this is my soul, this is the thing that I protect. This is the thing that is so precious, and what if I offer it up and it's incredible and see what happens to a lot of good things can happen. I think So do you wanna add anything? You don't have to. I would just say the same thing I say every single show. Uh, these are the stories of your community. And if you are in Colorado, these are the stories of the people at your coffee shops and your family and your friends group.

Your partner and if you're not hearing them, it's because you're not listening. Ah, very good. Well, thank you so much for being here, choy and paper. Thank you so much for having us. Thank you so much for having us. I really enjoyed it. This was great. We'll see you soon. Yeah. Okay. Bye.

 

Thanks again, Josie and Cooper for joining me on Colorado Soul Stories at the Denver Community Media Studios in downtown Denver. The music I played during the segment is actually from my brother's band, Zoon Politicon  from the mid 1990s. The song is called Angel of Desperation, written by Pat Donovan.

My brother was on drums, Kyle Carstens, and Bass, Carol Kilgore. I hope you enjoyed this segment. As usual, you can find extra information in the Soul Notes. Oops, soul Notes, show notes and on our website. Join us again, and, uh, remember, wherever you are in this state, whatever you're doing, go out and make Colorado a more soulful place to be.

 

Thanks.