Chris White of Yurts at Poncha Pass

Hi there. It's Mama Jill from Colorado Soul Stories and I am up at Yurts at Poncho Pass on the top of Poncho Pass near Salida, Colorado with my friend Chris White. Welcome Chris.

 

Thanks for having me. Thanks for coming out and thanks for having me. It's fun. Yeah, it's great.

 

I just had a tour of the Earthship and I've known Chris almost as long as he's been starting this project and it.

 

When I last saw it, it was still kind of a pile of tires that were being filled with dirt and I saw over Instagram all the progress and, and I got to see up close and personal. It's this beautiful structure with passive solar a little bit there, right?

 

Yeah. I mean, the concept of inertia completely is passive solar, right?

 

Yeah.

 

Passive solar, thermal mass. Um, and that gets your heating and cooling taken care of pretty much.

 

Yeah. So as I've learned about the Earthship, it's, I've just kind of been like, why don't we make more of these? But what I wanna first talk about, and I already know, 'cause I've talked to you a lot, but not everybody knows.

 

How you decided to do this? How did start a sustainable community up here in the mountains?

 

Yeah. Uh, I guess the short of that would be that I started looking for a house to buy.

 

Oh, okay.

 

Yeah. I was working on the ambulance in Santa Fe, New Mexico, and, uh, living down there and, uh, everything was just really out of my price range.

 

It basically was this idea that I would have to commit 30, 40 years of my life to. Paying it off, doing this job that I didn't really think I had that much of a runway left of doing.

 

Okay.

 

Um. And yeah. Anyway, the numbers work. I think currently our whole housing system is kind of broken in that regard for most people.

 

Um, and now they're talking about 50 year mortgages.

 

Are they really?

 

Yeah. They just started talking about that this week and

 

everyone,

 

all the bankers think it's a great idea.

 

Of course they do.

 

Yeah. Right.

 

Oh my God.

 

Um, but yeah, it's, it's basically this idea that we don't have, that the offer right now is.

 

Give us the best 30, 40 years of your life. Mm-hmm. And then you can have a, a box to live in. And a lot of those boxes are, you know, laminate and, uh, OSB, and then this idea of a fake brick or fake something. And then you're paying, uh, all of these, uh, utilities. Uh, for the rest of your life, you know? Right.

 

Heating, cooling, electric water, sewer, uh, plus your property tax and whatnot. And it, it just, for me, it was very much, you know, I don't, I'm a biologist as a background and I thought I. I think I can hack this a little bit. Yeah. And I started looking, I was looking around for, for properties and, and I found that on, on Zillow at least, uh, raw Land was, was just priced differently.

 

Yeah, it was a lot. Just felt like you got a lot more for the idea of something Right. Then I was like, well, okay, if I can buy a piece of raw land, I can live in a trailer. I can live in a tent for a while until I figure it out.

 

Yeah.

 

And that kind of started the whole snowball thing.

 

Okay.

 

Um, thought I was gonna live in an Airstream for a while, but then those were overpriced at the time and everyone's selling these shells for $20,000 and it's just like, oh my gosh.

 

Um. So, yeah, I just kept looking and then I ended up taking the Earthship Academy in Taos in 2016, and my question to myself was, does this, is there a housing type that makes sense? Mm-hmm. You know, and could I build something myself, not being a builder or a carpenter, or really having any experience. Okay.

 

Besides, you know, the occasional shop. Uh, thing, you know, I don't even basic, I didn't even take shop in high school. I didn't even get off of that.

 

You should have gone to my preschool. 'cause we start with a hammer and nails. Yeah, right. Get those skills going. I think before

 

I went to that maybe, you know, a hundred nails in my life, I don't know.

 

Basically though the, the bonus that's, yeah, my life was mostly biology and, and mostly emergency medicine and, and, um, just other things. Um. And yeah, I found one guy who had built one type of earthship in one area of what, what they were doing, and I, it seemed like it made a lot of sense to me.

 

Okay. I was

 

like, okay, this is a very simple.

 

You know, three walls you north, your east and your west as tire walls. And then, uh, just a single sloped pitch towards the front. Mm-hmm. And then a bunch of glass. Yeah. And, uh, it just made a lot of sense. And I think he built it for, you know, like 40 grand or something. Wow. And that was his home. Yeah. And.

 

You know, 40 grand versus I guess three 50 or 400 at the time. Mm-hmm. Which now,

 

oh, it's, yeah, way more is seven

 

or eight. Yeah. Um, just was, I thought, you know, if people are gonna pay me minimum wage to work on an ambulance, I think I can pay myself. Time to basically build my own home.

 

Plus the, the whole, the Earthship really checks a lot of boxes as far as the carbon neutral kind of, uh, yeah, we're using Earth Friendly,

 

a ton of recycled materials, mostly tires, right?

 

Oh, so it's about a, I think there's about a thousand tires in this one up the road. Okay. Um, there are some new materials that you can or cannot use. Um, but yeah, trying to use a lot of. The, uh, materials that I can find or, or do, I did do a new roof and the glass is all, uh, double paned, um, tempered. Uh, but it was designed to be a PDR, which is a patio door replacement.

 

So you're also trying to design things that are standard

 

and, and, and keeping the warmth.

 

Yeah. Yeah. So a lot of, a lot of earthships are very eclectic, uhhuh, and I think part of the reason a lot of them. Are for sale for so much money is they, they put in these viegas, a lot of it's New Mexico architecture and Kiva fireplaces.

 

And Viegas is a very strong New Mexico flare. Mm-hmm. But it's very expensive. And putting whole tree trunks across your roof is, uh, okay. A lot. Yeah. You need a crane. You need someone to deliver these giant tree trunks. It, it just gets to this idea of complexity.

 

Is that more of a. Traditional style or has that become just more of an aesthetic?

 

The big whole tree,

 

I think it was traditional. Okay. And, uh, now it's become aesthetic. Yeah. So if you go into like hotels and things like that, you'll see a lot of it. Yeah. Um, same with like latia and whatnot. Okay. But, so part of my goal was, okay, let's build a house that's affordable and also simple. Yeah.

 

So if we can. The simple aspect was specifically for myself in a large as way. Mm-hmm. Way because I'm a biologist and not really a builder, so I always try and keep things as simple as possible. Um, and you can make things, you can add your flare with lamps or Sure. Art or whatever you want to do.

 

You've got the bottle glass bottle, decorative windows.

 

Yeah. So, you know, just. Which wine bottles you're choosing to put in the wall. That's, you know, sure. That's, there's art in that.

 

I thought they were very pretty. Right.

 

But there's a lot of people that need a lot of flair in the building, I would guess. And that just adds a lot of cost. Mm-hmm. Okay. And so not only was it trying to build something that's simple and economical, but it could be as an example for other people to, um, say, wait, you know.

 

I, I too could build my own home. Take it into your own hands. I too can, yeah, because you know, if you can build your own home and Yeah. This is my fourth summer working on it and I didn't really work on it this summer. Really?

 

Oh, you were gone? Yeah,

 

for about three and a half months. I was, uh, got a job opportunity that took me away and some travel that I haven't done in a while.

 

Um, and then the first two and a half summers were mostly. Pounding tires and those, those were two and a half hours a day every morning, kind of just getting a workout in and, and getting that done. Um,

 

so to clarify, sometimes you do that alone, perhaps.

 

Yeah. And other times, other times with, uh, volunteers or, I, I run workshops in the spring, fall.

 

We just finished our 12th workshop, I believe. Wow. Um, this fall and, uh. People's ability to come here and, and put in some, some sweat equity, that, that to me is worth more than charging them a fee. Mm-hmm. And these are also the individuals who are trying to figure out how to build their own housing. Yeah.

 

So we need to work to try and, uh, support that effort. How many

 

people have you had come through in all those workshops? Do you know? Mm. I honestly, I

 

don't have a foun firm count.

 

Like, is there an average of 10?

 

Yeah, maybe around there.

 

So around a hundred and some maybe.

 

Maybe a hundred, maybe a little less.

 

Yeah. Which is great. Yeah, it's great. And there's, you know, always avenues like this podcast or whatnot mm-hmm. That I'm trying to, I'm trying to get more into the media myself, kind of keeping a, an arm's length away from it. But ultimately if we're gonna, you know, get this to people to make decisions for themselves on, on taking charge in their own life, um.

 

It's, it's just part of the, the process.

 

You gotta get it out there. Yeah.

 

So yeah, this, this process took, you know, four summers, but, you know, most people will spend their whole life, like we're talking about, to pay off a mortgage 30, 40 years to pay off a house. And yeah, there's a lot of sweat equity and some cost here.

 

But, you know, it was between the, the time and the, the money. Probably, maybe you would need like a 10 year mortgage or something like that. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I dunno, but it certainly just makes a lot more sense than 30 years.

 

I sure think it does. I mean, I can't think of anything negative about it. Um, it might take a little longer, but, um, but it's, it's something that's gonna last I remember, so I had Chris come to a, um, I did a teenage writing group a couple summers ago and we wrote about environmental things and I had one student interview, Chris, and um, and then.

 

All the people that the kids wrote about came to a, an event where their parents came and we shared what we learned. And uh, I remember when you were up there sharing about the, this community here, um, a young, uh, a little boy a. Said something like, could, it, could a, could the Earthship, um, get through a hurricane or something like that.

 

And this, I will remember this forever because I think you said, yeah. Way better than a regularly built house.

 

Yeah. I mean, ultimately there's an earth berm on three sides of the building. There's 150 tons of mass in the tire wall. And then. You have hurricane clips across all the trusses holding the roof to the building.

 

So yeah, I, I believe it's actually a house that should be designed for the idea of climate mitigation. Mm-hmm. And the arrival of climate change. Um, whether people are building the Midwest and worry about tornadoes mm-hmm. Or hurricanes. Also fires. Um, it's, it's very fireproof in that regard. Yeah. It's got a metal roof.

 

Yeah. Um, and then it's surrounded by dirt. So, uh, it's, it's quite difficult to see something, uh, like an earthship. Get burned down, hopefully. Yeah. Maybe there's a, I mean, maybe waste on the inside. It might

 

have little damage, but not the same type of damage as your average house, I would assume.

 

Yeah. When we build these cul-de-sacs of OSB stick frame homes, uh, we're talking about, uh, industrial glue and wood chips and they're all next to each other.

 

We're getting this situation now where we have these wild land, uh. Fires that are turning to these urban, we're having this urban interface situation where entire Yeah.

 

Witnessed that near Boulder. And I had a couple friends that lived in that neighborhood.

 

Yeah. That was a couple years ago. And then in la This last, in LA yeah.

 

About January. So 10 months ago. Yeah. And you're losing 400, a thousand, 2000 homes at a time. It's, it's absolutely devastating. And who knows if people have the right insurance or enough insurance to, to get back. And there's still this whole idea of. Paying off a mortgage and, and building

 

back the same kind of thing that could, the same thing could happen again.

 

Right?

 

So knowing that this is such a big issue and that, you know, a home is kind of where most people are trying to put their efforts towards just so that they have a place to, to call their own and where they can live with their family and raise kids. Um, I don't think we, we talk about housing enough in the regard of.

 

Well, this is how it's always been done, so therefore, you know, 30 year mortgage or else, 'cause there's nothing else, right? Mm-hmm. There's no other kind of things happening. It's one,

 

like one extreme or the other, which, you know, earth chips have been around for a long time now. I mean, so I'm like, it's not that funky anymore.

 

Like, why can't we, you know, spread this around a little bit more?

 

Yeah. So they, they've been around for a long time and they do require a certain amount of, uh. Sweat equity. And so actually when I got out onto this piece of land, um, I didn't start building ownership right away because I knew that that was gonna take, I was gonna be like the long kind of project.

 

Mm-hmm. For me. And it take. Four years and we're on my fourth summer. So yeah. You knew

 

it would take about that long. Is that pretty average? Well, I just

 

knew it was gonna take a while and I didn't have any housing, so how long was I gonna be in a tent uhhuh? Um, and you can't really do that during the winters, so that's when I came up with the idea of building the yurts.

 

Yeah. And the yurts are a very kind of elegant housing in, in many regards. They have, uh, windows on the south side, so we get the passive solar still. So we're still, uh, taking advantage of, of that heating aspect during the day. Yeah. And during the winter. Uh, you don't really need the, the propane stove to work at all.

 

It, uh, the passive solar's enough to keep it warm. Keeps it

 

warm at night. Oh, well,

 

not at night. Oh, oh. So at night, once the sun goes down, there's no thermal mass. Yeah. In the yurt. So then, uh, temperatures do drop and that's why you need the, the heating. Yeah. But they were really, uh, affordable in the sense of, um.

 

You know, their, their, their cost per unit. Mm-hmm. I think it came out at the time to 60,000

 

for all,

 

for each, each unit.

 

60,000 each. Yeah. Okay.

 

And now we're talking about, well, we're full solar and then we have full, uh, we have a thousand gallon berry propane tank and a septic and leach field and a well.

 

So all of those utility costs are divided Yeah. Across the four units. And then each of these yards has a full kitchen, uh, shower with hot water. And uh, I mean once, once you get in em, if

 

you've never been in one, it's like a, a round house, you know? Yeah. It's a tiny home. And that

 

was important for me to achieve that so that when we did have people come out, especially for the nightly rentals we do during the summer, that people don't come out in there.

 

Um, they enjoy it for a night and they say, okay, we like to, let's go back home mm-hmm. And be back in our lives. Right. You know, get back to like what we need. When they come out and they find that they have, you know, a nice bed and a loft and a full kitchen and full bath, uh, I found a lot of people, you know, that you kind of hear them talk to themselves like, why are we living in such a large house?

 

You know, 450 square feet is pretty much all we need. Mm-hmm. And, um, so yeah, it's a very kind of simple way to live.

 

Do you think you've converted a few people?

 

Yeah, I think so. And uh, certainly there's a lot of work shoppers that stay in the arts and it's starting to make me realize that, you know, housing is not some sort of magic bullet or something, or fixed solution, so.

 

You know, if you go do the Earthship Academy, they'll just say earthships. Right. But maybe there's, there's different housing types that are better for different people. Right. Yeah. And we just don't really have much exploration in that

 

or an acceptance. It's kind of the

 

Yeah, sure.

 

The old American dream that, that it, it just doesn't work anymore.

 

It worked fine for a while, I suppose, but

 

yeah. And, and the big thing there also is code. Code is so, uh, it's such atrophy of our ability to pivot and there's certain code that definitely makes sense and was made, uh, in places for specific reasons, you know, whether you're in a tornado area or whatnot. But I don't know how we can still put double wides.

 

Tornado paths or, um, you know, all of these, uh, houses that are super flammable in, in these areas. And, and that's okay. Right. But somehow you can't do an earthship or you can't do a yurt.

 

Yeah.

 

I mean, 'cause if you could be in a yurt and if, you know, you did a composting toilet, and, and I talk about this in the workshops, we, we kind of break down costs.

 

So I kind of. Went deluxe with the yurts because I was going to be catering towards people staying here nightly, um, during the summer. Um, also trying to create affordable housing during the winter, so people that would be able to live at 9,000 feet in the winter and want to be here versus, uh, maybe going to a outhouse or something every time they need to do that.

 

Right. Um, so that just made sense for me for what I'm trying to build. But if people wanted to, you know, have, uh, a more simple design, you could definitely do that. And, you know, build a home for 25,000. Yeah. That was a yurt.

 

Yeah.

 

Um, and that would make sense for a lot of people in, in different situations.

 

Yeah.

 

And then I would argue like, okay, if you build a home and it's a home, like how long does it take for you to. To pay that off. If you're paying a thousand or 1500 or 2000 a month in rent, you know, if you pay off that home in two years, you know, it's, that might be totally worth it. Oh, a lot of freedom there.

 

Yeah, a lot of freedom.

 

Oh my goodness. Yeah.

 

And so we're running into, you know, crazy code where you have to have a minimum square footage. You have to, you know, and it's, it's archaic. It sure is. I don't think it makes sense, but that's. Until people get into public office at a local level and start changing it, uh, it's something that we certainly have to deal with.

 

Maybe we can get some. Issues on ballots or something to change code? I don't know. Yeah,

 

it depends. We, I always teach about, uh, figuring out kind of what counties have pockets of freedom. It's zones where we have a more relaxed building code and where you still can build, uh, much of what you would want to build for a home.

 

Yeah.

 

Um, certainly if you're trying to build something in Denver, there's gonna be a lot more code. Than if you're out in the country.

 

So on that note, I, I was looking into, um, because we do have these 30 year mortgages, 'cause I'm older than you, and if I'd met you earlier, I would've been totally coming to one of your workshops and my kid would've come with me and we would've.

 

Built a yurt or a earthship. I, I definitely was looking into alternative ways, but, uh, you know, bought my house when I was in my early thirties and anyway, um, was recently looking at places where I could maybe put a tiny house, 'cause we've got this big yard in Denver. I, I had kept my Denver house and I have a big yard there.

 

But the further away from Denver, you get the looser the codes for sure. Uh, doing anything alternative in Denver was just prohibitive. Um, yeah, just unfortunate

 

some of it makes sense based on densities and, and how things were laid out initially, or, you know, sewer lines or, uh, roadways, how much traffic they can carry.

 

All of these things are. Built into code. And so that certainly, you know, it's not something where we can just say, oh, there should be no code.

 

Right? No, there's a, there's gotta be a happy medium, don't you think? Yeah, I, I

 

think we can definitely re-look at a lot of things and we should encourage our, our representatives to do so and, uh, you know, get it back to the place where we're actually.

 

Working for people and not realtors and banks

 

and

 

Which

 

money itself Yeah.

 

Yeah. Is kind of where we're at right now. Because when there's that much code in so many places, you're not allowed to touch the shovel. You're not allowed to change anything because the moment you do, we're gonna red tag it, we're gonna find you, we're gonna, it's not, it's not feasible.

 

Right? Yeah. Um, but right now there's still the ability to go to a land office and, um. Talk to them before you buy. Mm-hmm. And so that's kind of my, yeah. One of my, like I do a permitting lecture. Okay. What we do on a day, and then that specifically is what is the, you know, the process of trying to buy a piece of land and just making sure that you have all of the, the knowledge and tools to know that what you're getting into is what you want to be getting into.

 

Right. Versus what we say is, uh, buying the dream and living the nightmare. Of having this aspiration of building your own home somewhere and then realizing you're not allowed to and Yeah. And then suddenly you're stuck with this thing,

 

need a lot of information before you

 

Yeah. And it's not rocket science, but there is a lot of it.

 

And, um, some of the lessons that I've learned, uh, were, I call them nuggets of gold. I, I paid for them with, with real money and if I had learned to do it differently mm-hmm. That would be awesome. Yeah. If I had a little bit more information and so. Uh, if I can disseminate this information to others, uh, in a meaningful way so that they don't have to do the same mistakes twice, then now we're making progress.

 

Yeah. Would

 

you say it's 'cause, did those things happen because it wasn't easy to find the information to begin with?

 

Yeah. So, for instance, uh, drilling a well, uh, you, you know, you get a, a company and, and most companies, they're there to do the job. They're not there to do the job. I guess like in a design or, or be your look, have your back in a way they're there to show up and do the job.

 

Just get it done.

 

Yeah.

 

So they show up and they say, well, where do you want the well? And so here would be nice, but I, I don't know anything about of topography and how wells work Yeah. And whatnot. And so if you live in a valley with a water table, okay, most wells are probably at a certain depth. But when we're.

 

The best way I've learned is, is that when you're in any sort of topography, water flows downstream, above ground, underground in the same fashion, but it's through like different, uh, substrates, right? Yeah. It'll find it's like underground rivers Yeah. Flowing through. Uh, it would rather go through sand than, than rock, right?

 

Yeah. And so that makes sense, but I didn't know that until we're 200 feet down on a hole and they say, Hey, do you wanna. Use this other guy that we talk to sometimes, like, well, why are we having this conversation now? Yeah,

 

yeah.

 

When I am already paying you so much per foot and I was stuck with that dry hole.

 

Oh.

 

And this other guy comes out and, uh, shows me some things and, uh, you know, 20 feet away, you gotta drill here.

 

Oh. And

 

I couldn't believe it. 20 feet away from the spot we were. And lo and behold, there was water there. So, so

 

did they already try it in one spot and it wasn't successful?

 

Well, the, the hole that they did, yeah.

 

There was no, no water in it. But you're, you're on the hook for that.

 

But Yeah. 'cause they did it. Yeah. They dug the hole. Okay. Gotcha.

 

But, so there's a lot of, uh, things about that that you can start learning. It's like, okay, well you can also go on the Department of Natural Resources website, DNR

 

Oh,

 

and find all the neighboring wells

 

Okay.

 

Uh, of a property that you might be interested in and see how deep they are. Yeah. And that's before you buy, hopefully. Yeah. 'cause if, you know, people are going a hundred feet, that's very different than a thousand feet. Right? That's tens of thousands of dollars. Yeah. Wow. So having these nuggets of gold or these pieces of information is really important.

 

Um, when you can, when you can do it or get it.

 

Yeah. Yeah. You're, you're the gold now you're, you've got the gold information.

 

Well, hopefully, we're just trying to find a way to disseminate it. Right. Um. Because I, I, you know, and again, I think community need is so important that it's not something that we should gate keep.

 

I think we do a really good job in society of gatekeeping. I, I went through the struggle and the difficulty, so therefore you should struggle as well. And right now that's, that's not helping any of us. It's not working. No. And when we divide ourselves into, uh, all of these groups, um, you know, the banks win ultimately.

 

And so I think it's, it's really trying to bring power back to the people, uh, in a meaningful way is what we need to be focusing on.

 

Yeah, I wholeheartedly agree. So, speaking of water, we do need to touch on your pond. I wrote an article, I guess it was just two years ago in Colorado Central Magazine, which is not around anymore, but um.

 

About a struggle you were having. You have a beautiful pond here, and when I first came up, you had a, an owl that would hang out, buy it, and deers came to drink from it. Um, and you have water rights here, um, but they're junior water rights. Am I correct or secondary water rights.

 

Yeah. I got enough water rights to offset the evaporation to the, and keep the pond.

 

Yes. That was the goal. Um,

 

to offset the, so it's kind of complicated, but if you have a pond and somebody else has water rights before you Yeah, yeah.

 

Water rights are quite complicated. They're

 

really complicated. Yeah.

 

But basically we needed enough of a water right to offset the, of evaporative loss Right.

 

Of the pond, and then we could keep it. Um, and yeah, it's just been a very difficult process. Um, there's a lot of good old boys. Uh, in the area. And to be, um, fighting, uh, against that is, is very difficult and frustrating. Yeah. You almost have to be able to go to court to be, to prove you're right.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

Which costs a lot of money,

 

which costs a lot of money, and they, uh, are well, well aware of that. So.

 

So in short, uh, Chris was asked to drain the pond. That has not had to happen yet, correct?

 

No, it was, uh, put on, uh, put on the back burner. And then, uh, I've been trying to get it as a, um, a firefighting resource.

 

It certainly is a wildlife resource, but that's not measured. Um, and then the firefighting resource, we had the decker fire at the end of.

 

2019,

 

I believe.

 

Yeah.

 

Yeah. And that almost, uh, became a big problem for Salida and we had multiple helicopters pulling out of it, uh, to help slow it down. And that was super helpful for them.

 

Yeah. And Chinook and a couple different, uh, fairly large attack helicopters and then got letters from, uh, the firefighting wildland division of Chaffee County in support of it. Um, and this is all under a recent bill from Polis to specifically designate ponds as firefighting resources as we move towards the dryer and more, um, yeah, more frequency of, yeah.

 

Of wildfires and just intensities and, and what we're, we're currently starting to see. Mm-hmm. Um, and that kind of got tanked by, uh, again, private interest. So yeah, we're still working through some other avenues and yeah, doing our best.

 

Well, I'm, it's kind of in limbo it sounds like, but the pond is still there and it's, it's a lovely part of your property, so I hope you don't have to drain it.

 

Um, let's see where I would go next. Here. Didn't bring my glasses in. Oh. Uh.

 

Oh. Um, so, so obviously I'll edit that big pause out, um, as you go. So when do you think your, the earthship will be? When will you move in?

 

I'm trying to have it, uh, habitable. Mm-hmm. By the end of May. Okay. Of upcoming. Nice. So about five, six months.

 

Okay. And then, um. So will you continue doing workshops or what, what's the future plans?

 

Yeah, so I think it's actually getting to one of the more exciting bits. Maybe that's my biology or ecologist mindset, but the infrastructure was a lot and that's just, you have to build enough, um, to have people, to have space, for people to, to be comfortably. Um, so the Yurts was kind of this mixed use effort of, okay, if we can build the yurts, we can do nightly rentals in the summer, and that'll start creating a little bit of a economic engine where we can offer these workshops for free in the spring and fall.

 

And then, uh, offer affordable housing to people in the winter. Um, because a lot of, uh, young people can live in their cars or their vans or their campers during the summer down by the river. It's, it's easy living, but the ones that wanna stay in the winter, uh, suddenly you need housing, you need shelter.

 

So, uh, with the yurts kind of up and running in, in that capacity, um. The idea is to start focusing on long-term housing, affordable housing. And so that was the, the Earthship. And so the Earthship has, uh, a multiple bedroom so we can have multiple people, uh, be in that area. And then, uh, we can start doing food production.

 

So a little bit of permaculture and, um, animal husbandry, which I'm really excited about.

 

Oh, what do you, what kind of animals?

 

Uh, I think goats and sheep would be interesting. Uhhuh. Um, there's a lot of history that shows a lot of, uh, kind of first people to be around this area. Were mostly involved in sheep and and goats.

 

Mm-hmm. Uh, I think they might have a, a better. A way to, to live among the land and just cattle cattle's kind of our Yeah. That's such a big answer for everything.

 

Yeah. Big impact. Yeah.

 

Yeah. So there are, uh, smaller undulates that would have smaller impacts. Yeah. Um, and you can, you know, between the two, you can do wool, you can do soap, you can do cheese, you can do milk.

 

There's, uh, a lot of, uh, end products that come from that. Yeah. Instead of just straight dairy. And yeah, so. As we can kind of keep going here, um, you start creating a, a bigger capacity for more people to have varied jobs or varied interests and learn about more things because food production's a whole nother side of things that we ultimately need to kind of take ownership of again.

 

Mm-hmm. I think, um, if we wanna. Yep. Yep. Make it

 

if we wanna make it. And the earthship, uh, includes a greenhouse in it. So yeah,

 

the front hallway, so the way the Earthship works is it has the thermal mass behind the build, and then you insulate that actually into the build so that 150 tons is got insulation behind it.

 

And then you have two sets of glass, so the, the outside glass and then the hallway that connects all your rooms to your living space. And so then the passive solar charges your living space in the thermal mass all day. And then at night, once you kind of have things buttoned up. The heat will slowly go to the greenhouse and then slowly outside.

 

Okay, so you're slowing that down?

 

Yeah. Nice. So you're

 

creating a comfort zone, so to speak.

 

Okay. Yeah. And then in the warmer months you'll have outdoor gardens and Yeah, you can open it

 

up and, and then you can do your, your annuals and whatnot. But yeah, the greenhouse would be a, a really good place for winter greens and, um.

 

We'll certainly be experimenting with that.

 

Yeah. Exciting. Very exciting. Um, is there any particular, I mean, I, I would hope you're proud of what you're doing. You're doing a really cool thing. Is there any particular piece of it that, um, or feature that, um, is unique to your Earth chip?

 

Yeah. I mean, if you ever build a home, uh, you're gonna have your fingerprints all over

 

it.

 

Yeah. Yeah.

 

Um, all in the mistakes and, and your choices and all of the things. So yeah, there's no two owner built homes alike. Right. I like

 

that. Yeah.

 

Where you might, yeah, very well see. Similar housing for, um, traditional housing

 

looks exactly the same sometimes, right? So do you like that?

 

Oh, that mine is unique.

 

Yes. Uh, yeah, I think

 

the design choices all have, uh, a purpose for mine. Mm-hmm. And again, going towards simplicity, I think, uh, it's really important to kind of focus in on that because when you look at kind of feedback cycle. Um, this more simple, you can make something the more it will like positively feed back in your life.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

So if you can build a really affordable home and you're not working on a 30 year mortgage, then that money, you know, after those maybe seven years or something, that's all coming back to you. Yeah. Um, and then it, you know, all the way down to, okay, if you have a bedroom door and you could put a front door in front of that bedroom door.

 

Then when you're going in and outta your bedroom for the next 15, 20 years to go outside, you can go directly outside. Yeah. You're not walking down the hallway to then go outside and you just kind of, the more simple and the more streamlined you can kind of make your life, the more that's gonna positively Yeah.

 

Feedback into your life.

 

It sure sounds like a good idea,

 

right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, life is already very complicated.

 

You're right. So even I'm more so than ever. I think, and you know, as I'm talking to you, I, the last couple people I interviewed that there was a similar stream going through it, even though they do different things, you know?

 

Um Right. But I think that's cool. I, I must be hitting the nail on the head for, um, cool people that are, are choosing to live in a simpler. Ultimately happier way it seems like.

 

Yeah. Well I think that simplicity kind of gives you more time for, than the things that truly matter. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Um, which, you know, I think is probably associated with happiness.

 

Yeah.

 

And to me, I mean, this just all feels good, you know, because it's. It's not continuing this cycle that is really kind of self-destructive the way that we've, if we continue to do it clearly. So

 

yeah. So it's all gone way slower, right? Patience one would hope. But uh, you know, those are good things.

 

Always take time and, um. I know that for the people that have been here on the workshop, that certainly each of them has been super excited, um, leaving here and felt a little more empowered to maybe Empowered, yeah. Make the, the leap themselves somewhere down the road.

 

That too.

 

And it might not even be in necessarily building their own home.

 

But it could be just a career choice. Sure. Or working within their community. We talk about, uh, time banking, right. As a very strong tool.

 

Do you wanna give a quick overview of that?

 

Uh, yeah. I guess the time banking is one of the things that I kind of came across. So when I was working on getting the yurts up, um, they're not crazy complicated, but for instance, the center ring's like 350 pounds.

 

Oh.

 

Like getting that up 14 feet, hovering in the air by yourself suddenly becomes like a, a bit of a magic trick, right? Yeah. Um, if you have four people, it becomes a lot easier, right? So I, uh, had a good friend that, uh, was a builder in the slide area and, uh, found that we, we just enjoyed working with each other and.

 

Well, yeah, he'd come help me on, uh, projects and then I would go help him on his, uh, his projects and just started realizing that there's a really strong, uh, amount of power to that. Yeah. So, you know, you can imagine that if I worked for nine hours by myself and then. I worked with him for four and a half that we'd, you know, do about the same amount of work.

 

But that's not at all true, right? Because if somebody else can hold the other side of the board or hand while things to you while you're on the ladder, it just goes a lot faster,

 

right?

 

So instead of, you know, four and a half hours, you probably do the same amount of work in two hours.

 

Yeah.

 

And if we can do that on my project and then go and help work on his project and do the same, then we're both, uh, suddenly doing much better for ourselves.

 

Um, and yeah, the more you delve into the, this kind of concept, the more, uh, benefits you start realizing, which

 

I would assume some of this just naturally happened hundreds of years ago anyway, because people had to, there was no other way.

 

Well, I think that's actually how. People used to live, right? Yeah.

 

So they used to say the ideal community was about 150 people.

 

Okay.

 

And you had division of labor and we're talking first Nations groups at this point.

 

Mm-hmm.

 

And you have hunters, you have builders, you have gathers, you have farmers, you have people working in clothing, people you know, maybe doing a, somebody doing the medicine person.

 

Right. Um, these are really. Strong communities that used to exist. And if you look at modern day capitalism, I, I would argue that the intention is to pretty much segregate us. Mm-hmm. So there's a lot of effort saying, okay, everybody deserves or should have the American dream, their own house. Right. Don't, you know, there's no idea about community living.

 

Mm-hmm. And in some ways, again, with code, you're not allowed to have community living. You're not allowed, I think. Colorado may have just passed a law that says you're allowed to have

 

certain amount Yeah. Certain number people

 

in a home that, that are not from the same family.

 

Yeah. Which

 

is crazy. Like why are we, why is this a A law?

 

I know. But yeah. So everybody has to have their own home.

 

Yeah.

 

And then everyone has to, you know, I live in a cul-de-sac, and then you have to go to the market for everything. Mm-hmm. You should go to the market for day daycare for, uh, dog care, for groceries, for everything. Mm-hmm. And there's, you know, maybe this huge, you know, true crime on Netflix, you don't know your neighbor.

 

They're all, you know, rapists and evil people.

 

Oh, because of, yeah. And so there's much of that. Yeah. Yeah. And

 

there's never been a bigger loneliness epidemic than there is now. And. Community's the thing that actually sets us free. You know, the ability to come together and support each other and help each other and, and give each other fair value for our, our time.

 

Um,

 

it seems like it's a novel concept right now. Community It's wild, right?  I'm constantly trying to promote it and talk about it because I, I have just felt it literally slipping from my hands and my life unless I. Actively work on keeping it going in my life, you know? And it's so sad and weird that it's not natural anymore.

 

You have to kind of work at it.

 

Yeah. So I, I came to the conclusion that people are having a very difficult time being told what to do right now because everybody's telling them what to do. And the first thing that we do when people tell us what to do is we shut down. Yeah. We're just, you know, tired of, of doing that.

 

Uh, so I was like, okay, well if I can build a community, uh, that's sustainable and grows its own food and supports itself by example, then people will seek it out. Yeah. Because the ones that are seeking it out, you know, we'll seek it out. And when people seek it out and say, Hey, how, how are you doing this?

 

That's a very different question than, uh. Having an argument with someone about what they should do. Right. And it, as soon as people seek it out, they're, they're open to it. They're open to, 'cause they're asking the question, well, how did, how did this happen? And they

 

maybe heard about you or saw something on Instagram or something.

 

This is a very sim similar comment that, um, Anna Maria made. Uh, I just posted that, uh, episode today about the way that she teaches is not like you just said. Telling people they see her behavior or see how she handles difficulty, and they ask her, how do you do that? You know? Right. And it, it sounds very similar to what you're talking about, that you're just, you're doing this and the, you know, if somebody's curious about it, they come to you.

 

Right. And they wanna learn more, which is different method than you going around saying, Hey, you should do this, I guess.

 

Right. And so then I guess the, the question too. To someone else. Like the example would be, would you rather be at a party arguing with one person about something and spend an hour trying to convince them

 

yeah.

 

That the earth is round or something? Or would you rather be in a round table discussion with four people about how, how to make things better?

 

Right.

 

And those are two very different nights and they result in two very different outcomes.

 

Yeah.

 

And so at a certain point we just. You know, it's better to spend one's time trying to, to work towards the benefit of, of each other versus.

 

What we should and should not be doing

 

well and having an actual conversation like the previous one you're talking about, it sounds like more, you know, each person taking a turn to lecture the other person about what they think. Whereas a round table with several people taking turns and listening and making comments rather than just telling, lecturing or whatever.

 

There is a difference, but not, I don't, I, I think it's important to. Point that out. Sure. You know? Yeah. It's, again, something kind of simple, but um, it, it, it's not being looked at very carefully. I feel like.

 

Well, things are, people are very busy. Yeah. 'cause they're hanging off dirty or more just, and yeah. We, we, and then you have to pay for childcare and you have to pay for dog care and you have to pay for groceries.

 

Mm-hmm. It gets to the point where we're so busy. Working to try and survive that we've, we are ceasing to kind of ask ourselves what, is there another way here? Yeah. Is there another way that makes sense? And I think there is, and we just, uh, there's, there's a lot of forces at work to convince us that there isn't.

 

Mm-hmm. As well.

 

Yeah. I gotta spread the word. And even though like some people might. At first, think about, oh, building a worship, doing your own gardening, all this. That sounds like a lot of work. However, I mean, once you get it all kind of going, you know, you, you have, you have been working very hard at this, but you take, you have the time to travel.

 

You're not necessarily tied down what, by one particular job. You're able to just take work when you need it and work on, on the earthship, and then ultimately, I'm assuming. You won't have to do a whole lot other than maintain this.

 

Yeah. I mean,

 

is that a goal or is that,

 

I, I think work is also an interesting concept in itself.

 

We're being sold work as this idea that you need to do this job and then when you're 60, 65, you can retire, you can stop doing the job. Mm-hmm. And then you can do whatever you want. But you know, I graduated in oh nine right at the height of, you know, the crash. And I was watching on TV how they're telling everybody you can't retire

 

right?

 

Because

 

your pension's gone. Yeah. So you need to give us another 10 years. Hmm. And there's kind of this, uh, mirage of stopping to, you know, work to do something. And I think a lot of people, maybe they don't like their jobs. Well, especially at kind of what corporate America offers us. Mm-hmm. Because those jobs aren't things that are impacting their community.

 

They're not, you know, it, it might be rewarding work for them, them, and it can be meaningful work for them. I don't want to take that away from people, um, but they might find. They enjoy their work a lot more if it was something that was directly benefiting their community. Yeah. And they enjoy it so much that it might be something that you actually don't wanna stop, kind of.

 

Sure. Yeah. Um, I really do enjoy building things with a tangible kind of ability to look back on the day and see something that was built. Yeah. However small it was. It, it's done now. Um, and yeah, there will be, you know, this idea of. Maintaining and running gardens. But yeah, you slowly work towards this thing that starts yielding, kind of like your return, right?

 

Yeah.

 

So if I build this house, then I, I have a forever home and I, three other people have a forever home or you know, a home for a while or annual leases or something and there's some residual income or maybe. If I start a family, uh, other people can live there if they're supporting the idea of, uh, childcare or dog care.

 

Right. Um, I have, uh, a dog and the ability to leave the dog with someone else who's there is, you know, that solves that problem. Yeah. Um, so yeah, it's, I think it slowly is yielding more and more fruit. Yeah. Which is why I keep trying to plant. Fruit trees because that's the, how's that going? The most literal definition of Yeah.

 

You know, plant a tree early and, and then have fruit

 

the rest of your life. Yeah. Yeah. No, I love it. I love it.

 

So,

 

um, fabulous. Yeah. Is, um, is there any other things you'd like people to know about this project?

 

Well, it's ongoing and like I was talking about archetypes earlier. Uh, I think, you know, it doesn't necessarily end with an earthship.

 

Um, I'm really interested in hempcrete. I think there's ways to kind of achieve the tire aspects of a build without maybe doing the tire work. Um. And so, and, and there's a lot of other builders that are out there doing alternative ideas, and I think it's just more important than ever for us to kind of step out of the box mm-hmm.

 

Of what we think is our options of what we're able to do. Um, I've, uh, learned and become a, a family member with a large van life community, people who. You know, didn't have really housing as an option and are still. Kind of meandering around the, the country and trying to find a, a home that makes sense for them.

 

Yeah.

 

That's not that 30 year mortgage.

 

Yeah.

 

Um, and yeah, when you start seeing other people living these alternative lives, I think it, it just makes things a lot simpler. It doesn't have to be this like, complicated thing where we sign up for all of the subscriptions and then struggle in the debt to try and pay for it all.

 

Yeah. Um. You know, and if we, you know, drive home the simplicity of, of life at its core of what we're, what we need versus what we want, uh, we don't need a lot. Yeah. You know, you do need, you know, shelter and, uh, food and, and those things can be met. Um. You know, in, in meaningful ways. Um, it's, I think when we get to the, all these auxiliary things and keeping up with the Joneses, that we start getting ourselves in trouble

 

of,

 

uh, running a race that mm-hmm.

 

That we did not train for.

 

No, no. That doesn't really make any sense.

 

Yeah. Or it doesn't go anywhere. Doesn't go

 

anywhere. It's like a treadmill. Yeah.

 

Yeah. So if people wanted to find more, they can. Go to yurt set poncha pass.com. Yeah, that's where we, uh, have the, the offerings for either doing nightly stays coming, checking out, or a workshop or, um, whatnot.

 

And, uh, yeah, we're working more on the socials trying to, uh, convert that more to an educational, uh, aspect. Awesome. Which is coming up probably here shortly. There ships at a really good. Spot right now where a lot of it is built, but it's also all revealed so you can see it all.

 

Yeah.

 

So it's a, it's a good time to start, uh, documenting it properly and, and sharing that with people so that they can, it's just

 

beautiful.

 

I, I, we were driving up the dirt road. It's kind of behind the hill and, and it's way bigger than I thought it was. It is just real pretty, you know.

 

Yeah. Yeah, it's a little bit bigger. But the idea was to try and build like a, I mean,

 

it's not a McMansion or anything, but it's, it's

 

housing under multiple so that two couples could live under one roof.

 

Yeah. And the same with the, uh, the yurts. I think when you build at some level of scale, you can reduce your cost. I think that's why major developers are always building entire neighborhoods at once. You know, they're making a lot more money.

 

Right.

 

Um, but if we can do it for ourselves. And we can build community for ourselves.

 

Yeah. Instead of just developers getting a fee and, and then leaving. The homes to whoever Yeah. Occupies them,

 

right? Yeah. Well, and you have the satisfaction that you did it your way and you did it, um, in an earth friendly way, and you developed community and all those boxes, as we said.

 

Yeah. And it's, it's an ongoing learning process, you know, there's no right answer again.

 

So, uh, I, I keep learning and trying to stay open to that process so that, um, you don't. Fall for this fallacy of, you know, there's one way or the highway kind of mentality. I think that's where it gets us in trouble. Yeah, I agree. So part of the workshop, uh, one thought I like to do is. Everyone who comes actually has to do a, a tiny presentation.

 

Hmm. Yeah. So I present throughout the, the weeks, uh, on the, these larger concepts, but I think everybody has something very meaningful to share. Cool. And comes from very unique backgrounds. Everyone's background is, is unique.

 

Right.

 

And then by definition has something unique to, to share. And that's often one of my favorite parts of the workshop is hearing all these.

 

Diverse people talk about, uh, um, just a myriad of

 

kind of like what, like they're here to learn, but this is how they would put mean. Some, some people incorporate it, some, I've

 

had people sing. I've had people play music. I've had people guide meditations. I've had,

 

uh, a variety of

 

people discuss, uh, cryptocurrency.

 

I've had people discuss climbing and, and.

 

Whatever their,

 

yeah, their, their passions. Knowledge and passion. And their knowledge and how they interpret that. Neat. Yeah.

 

So everybody gets to learn something different also.

 

Exactly.

 

Yeah. Oh, as a former teacher, I love that. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Sharing, uh, I guess we would've called that.

 

We didn't call it show and tell, but the kids knew that every day they could get up and share. It was sharing time, that's all we called it. Yeah. And they could get up and tell us something and feel, you know, smart. Like, they know they're the expert for a minute, you know? Yeah. It's not just the teacher, it's, we're all learning together.

 

Yeah.

 

Yeah. That's awesome. I wish we, we had more of that in our modern world.

 

Yeah. Well, let's keep working on it, Chris. Yeah, sounds good. I'm with you. Um, well I think I'm gonna close out and let you go have some dinner and rest. And thank you so much for updating us on this project.

 

Yeah, this was fun.

 

Thanks for having me on. And, uh, we will talk down the road.

 

Absolutely. I encourage everybody to. Check it out, Y tip poncha pass.com.

 

Yur tip poncha pass.com.

 

Dot com. Yeah, check it out and I'll put stuff, uh, on my website as well.

 

Fun.

 

Alright, talk to you soon. All the best.